Pope Francis Forum on Facebook Pope Francis Forum on Google Plus Pope Francis Forum on Twitter

Greetings Vatican Issues Debater

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

In this Discussion

Jesus Christ is a Lie! Trying to come to terms

My father is a pastor, and I've been in the church all of my life. No, I'm not "Catholic", but was raised in Christianity. In my studies of conspiracy theories, the lost tribes of Israel, end times prophecy, etc. I stumbled upon several commentaries regarding the existence of Jesus Christ. I read a lot and watched hours of youtube videos and began to see all of the contradictions in the Bible. None of them still convinced me until I read Galations chapter 4 KJV. In verse 24, the word "allegory" stuck out to me like a sore thumb. If Abraham wasn't real, then Isaac wasn't real, and if Isaac wasn't real, then Jacob wasn't real, and if Jacob wasn't real, then the Children of Israel weren't real, and if the Hebrew Israelites didn't exist, then neither did Jesus Christ! I'm continuing my studies to find the truth. What are your thoughts?  


  • Posts: 59
    I have never read about that. If the Bible talks about Jesus, who are we to question. The revelation warns us about people like you. If the bible is not true, then why refer it for your evidence? I think that you should be looking for evidence to show the world that Jesus existed.
  • It is a natural tendency of people to find reasons and explanations for most things. Science introduced this way of thinking. With regards to your question, the mere fact that there are landmarks showing where Jesus was born; where He died are proofs of His existence. I believe you are on a journey of self-discovery at this point. May this experience lead you to know God better. Goodluck! 
  • Posts: 12
    I know of no legitimate archaeologists, even those critical of the Bible and Christianity, who would deny that Hebrew Israelites are a fact of history. There are also very few historians, archaeologists, etc. who think Jesus is a complete myth. That's only the kind of stuff you hear from Bill Maher and his ilk.

    It's true, many are skeptical that Jesus worked miracles or actually died on the cross, but the evidence for his existence (at the very least) is quite comprehensive. 

    I would recommend reading the appendix to Antony Flew's book, "There is a God." The Anglican bishop N.T. Wright lays out the case for a real and miraculous Christ quite well. 
  • Posts: 31
    It makes no difference. Oh, Christianity insists that "He died to pay the price for our sins"; but if that's true, why are we not 'living in the Garden of Eden, eating the fruit of eternal life?'

    No, I'm thinking that Jesus was a 'Buddha' (much like King Solomon & many others, enlightened-ones who knew that what really mattered was 'staying true to ...' I don't know the words, "brethren," "holy friends," "Family," etc.)

    And He 'rose again and ascended into Heaven' the very same way all of our dead friends-&-relatives have now "left the Earth and are living in Heaven (even though we buried them WITHIN the Earth and -though THE BIBLE SAYS they're sleeping in wait for resurrection and new life!)
  • Unfortunately, you are not born again saved and need to be. The bible is historically and scientifically accurate, and research backs that up. There's tons of evidence for it. The bible told the truth about creation THOUSANDS of years before scientists even discovered them to be true. And there are no contradictions in the bible. The bible is spiritually discerned, so if you go on your own understanding you aren't going to understand it at all. It can only be understood by those who are born of the spirit of God. (Actually saved.) I hope you get saved before it's too late.
  • Hi rw0908. I understand where you are coming from, as I as well have reached into the conspiracy theories about the Church and the Bible and so forth. In seeing these things and trying to find the truth, I believe these videos and writings make our Faith falter by questioning the Faith. I have seen this in myself while trying to find a balance between science and the Faith (I consider myself a logical person and love science). This might sound unorthodox, but I do not see the Bible as a historical book, because it is not. It is not, neither historically or scientifically. It is a holy book, a moral guide on how to lead our lives. Does it have some historical veracity yes, yes it does, but its not historically accurate in its entirety. In regards to if Jesus is real? I do not know, but I love what he represents. To me he represents, love, acceptance towards our fellow neigbors, kindness, forgiveness, patience empathy and humility among other things. So if you go in deeper, does it really matter as long as you are doing right by God. His teachings or what has been written as his teachings, only help us become better people, become the better version of ourselves. 
  • rw0908 asked a fair question, based on HIS research. I don't think it was his aim to derail anyone from Christianity. I grew up Christian and I find that we are too easily offended when people say things against our religion. I don't think Jesus would have been as harsh to this question and refer him to revelation. There are questions we can ask, and even to the Father himself when man fails with an answer. God never distanced himself from us in the first place. I've never seen God nor Jesus, but my belief is borne out of my faith, which is very solid. Many things have happened in my life which have proved that God exists. The teachings of Jesus are solid and non-confrontational. That was his main purpose when he walked this land. Whether rw0908 gets to this truth will be between him and God. Our only duty is to pray and bless him. If he rejects it, let God do his work. The very research he is doing now, can open his heart to greater things later.
  • Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. Definitely He is true despite all those criticisms and lies which are placed in His holy name. It is matter of faith and how we grasp these beliefs and truths. I am in a stage where anything, written and otherwise cannot change my belief in Christ as the only begotten son of God and the one who died in the cross to save us from our sins. I stand firm to this belief and I stand at nothing to say that He is my savior.
  • Honestly, it wouldn't surprise me if Jesus never existed. I joined this forum to either open my mind to new ideas or keep my own. I'm such an open minded person, that I am completely open to the idea of Christ never existing. I have no problem with people taking on this belief system. There are so many faiths in this world, it'd be so self absorbed to think we were the only people that were right. 
  • Posts: 129
    History has many loopholes. I am not saying there are false information in the Bible but it's something like that - we cannot take everything in the Bible at face value. I agree with the theory that if Abraham is not real then Jesus is a lie. Just like saying if your mother did not exist then how would you be existing. Okay, for the sake of argument, Abraham is not real and down the line of David until nearing Jesus. But one name in that string could be wrong so the anomaly belies the lie. In other words, the lineage is not accurate but Jesus as the culmination is accurate.
  • Well this is not something that you will find and discover, unfortunately. The thing about religion is weather you believe or not. If you do you do not ask questions about how is something possible, but there is that thing we call common sense and sometimes it is not very happy if it does not understand something. As any other book, The Bible could be fiction. I am just saying that Faith is something that is not debatable. You have it or not. Pragmatics and logic does not have place in religion. At least we tend to think like that by learning and evolving. Nevertheless, the religion, all of them , left a big trace in history and that will not change. If Christ was not real an The Bible is just fiction maybe you should think of it like the best guide for pure and healthy life. 
  • Posts: 3
     First of all, any Catholic I know will tell you that they are definitely Christian. As to all the other stuff, the Bible warns us about "vain philosophies." These can include other people's takes on the Bible. As I get older, I have found that reading the word of God is far less confusing than reading ABOUT the word of God. As for the Bible itself, there may be a few mistranslations or whatever, but Jesus is the real deal. If you believe that with all your heart, you won't stray too far from the truth.
  • RW you make a great point which reminds me of the exact same debate I had with my father (a religious scholar) about Abraham and the allegory of the two tribes. You have a correct citation of the text yet in the most textual meaning it talks about two covenants. Wether jewish scholars had the intention to resume what had been Israel's history in the way of two women or not, doesn't really take away validity of the existence of an entire "nation". Some Jewish friends have explored this same text and are way more open to the idea of Abraham being an allegory. It doesn't really matter to them because what matters most is the way they view the world thanks to their traditions. As catholics I think we should learn from the jewish in this point, perhaps some great stories told in the bible are allegories yet that doesn't mean the essence is fake because we are who we are thanks to the spiritual teachings we have recieved.
  • There are absolutely no contradictions in the bible. I'm sorry that you were never born again saved. You never knew God because you were never saved. That's very sad especially considering you grew up in the church. I hope your parents know this so they can pray for your salvation. Otherwise you're on your way to hell sadly. It's not a pretty truth. Jesus Christ is the only way to salvation, period. No other person can save you. He died for your sins. You can have all this head knowledge and never get anywhere. You're missing out on the whole picture. Jesus is God, he came to die for your sins, and offers you free salvation. So I really hope you get saved before it's too late. It's a serious eternal matter.
  • Posts: 36
    If Jesus Christ is a lie, then the whole bible is a lie. Jesus was with God when God created the earth and he is God himself. He is the Prince, The Word, Emmanuel, the Messiah. 

    I can't see why you are pointing out to this particular verse in Galatians 4:24 as the clinch evidence that Jesus is not real. Try reading the entire chapter to understand the context in which the verse was written instead of focusing on that single verse. The bible, old and new testaments, are coherent and consistent. 
  • Posts: 44
    It is a very strong statement to say that Jesus Christ is not for real. There are so many who have shown the logic of the existence of Jesus. In fact, all Christian sects believe in Jesus as what the name of the religion says - Christianity which came from the name of Jesus Christ. 

    The Bible is replete with figurative statements that when taken out of context can create confusion. I guess if you read the Bible excessive without a guide then you can go wrong later on with the overload of information.
  • Posts: 28
    Jesus Christ seems real, he's too popular to become fake. I think the stories in the Bible are true though. And I don't think that his existence and suffering were fake, I believe all of them and his teachings.
  • Posts: 26
    I do not doubt in the historicity of Jesus Christ, the Israelites, and the Abhramic people and tradition. There have been a lot of proofs, not in Christian tradition only but other traditions as well. For example, the life of Jesus Christ has also been recorded on Buddhist traditions.
    I can doubt Bible is word of God but I cannot doubt that Christ was real.
Sign In or Register to comment.